INTERVIEW: Cheryl Willis Hudson

This past summer, I had the opportunity to see an advanced copy of When I Hear Spirituals written by Cheryl Willis Hudson and illustrated by London Ladd. Those moments with the book elevated me to another level. The combination of text and images in the book come from a place of wisdom, faith, knowledge, and passion. The book, which currently has five starred reviews, retells four historical events through African American spirituals.

Cheryl Willis Hudson is the author of AFRO BETS ABC BOOK, Bright Eyes, Brown Skin and about 25 other books. She, along with her husband Wade, built Just Us Books, Inc, a publishing company that focuses on the Black experience in children’s books. In her most recent project, When I Hear Spirituals, Cheryl was inspired by a four verse poem that she’d written decades ago. She transcended her original vision by incorporating spirituals into the text that enhance events detailed in the book. Cheryl has crafted a beautiful book that connects music and memory in ways that hit all the feelings, doubly so when combined with London Ladd’s artwork.

I was fortunate enough to have an opportunity to interview Cheryl about WIHS and to discover just how much spirituals, research, and this particular book mean to her.

EC: I’m sure every interviewer is asking this, but what inspired you to write When I Hear Spirituals?

CWH: The short answer is that I was inspired by my childhood love of these beautiful songs. I especially loved the way spirituals told stories—stories of strength and resilience, and Black history. To me, the melodies were not only beautiful but the lyrics were empowering. I wanted to capture and somehow convey those feelings that the songs stirred up within me when I was a child. I grew up loving music but I’ve carried the inspiration of hearing spirituals with me all my adult life.

The long answer is that the When I Hear Spirituals developed over a period of more than 45 years before it became a picture book. It was first published as a poem in a 2-page spread that I designed for EBONY JR! magazine during the late 1970s. Mind you, I am not an illustrator but, for me it was important for young readers to see my visual interpretation of the words and feelings captured on the printed page. The poem sat for over 20 years until I started to illustrate those same lines with a series of story quilts that I created as a fabric artist. But this was not exactly what I considered a children’s book—it was more of a quilter’s journal or personal artist’s book. Fast forward, about 4 years ago Wade and I were looking through some of my manuscripts and the poem leaped out at us as a potential picture book. He suggested that I expand my poem by adding lyrics of specific songs to the narrative. The revision of my original poem gave rise to what became a full color picture book so wonderfully illustrated by London Ladd. The result is a blend of my love of spirituals, a child’s perspective of hearing them and actual events in Black history and brought to life by London Ladd’s richly textured paintings.

EC: What do you think readers, young or old, will get from WIHS?

CWH: Children love to hear stories and spirituals tell an amazing variety of stories through song. I think readers of all ages will appreciate how specific events in Black history are expressed in When I Hear Spirituals—such as an 1811 slave rebellion, re-telling a traditional Biblical story; a nineteenth century escape via the underground railroad, or marches during the civil rights movement of the 1960s. But I hope readers will also experience and react to emotions within themselves such as happiness, pain, sadness, fear, and hope. What I hope readers will experience is a personal connection to the music itself.

Music is an especially emotive form of storytelling. It’s truly a universal language and I hope readers will take away an appreciation for spirituals as a valued basis for so much of the music produced in the USA. African musical roots are firmly planted in American soil…although much of that culture was denied or erased, enslaved people created another vehicle for storytelling through spirituals that have informed our literature and reformed our steps in achieving literacy. From slave songs to plantation melodies to work songs and blues, R&B, Jazz, soul, rap and hip-hop, the evidence is undeniable. There’s that call and response structure; simple descriptive text, memorable melodies, flattened notes, percussive rhythm, impressive improvisation, that all reflect witness and resistance. Within the music there is also a persistent faith, and a cultural context of survival and hope.  

EC: This is a completely random question, but I think it provides insight into your work flow. Could you tell me what your writing space looks like? Is it bright? Messy? Colorful? Filled with snacks? Filled with music? 

CWH: My writing space is pretty much filled with books and binders and some see-thru storage bins. Books surround me on a 4-foot shelf behind me; books are in boxes, to my right and my left; there are books and folders of papers on my desk; some books are stacked by the floor. There’s a portable music stand in front of my desk and one old laptop computer on my left. There are wooden flat files on my right for posters and art and a row of loose-leaf binders on a shelf near the ceiling. I’d say it will look a bit messy to others but I pretty much know where everything is. It’s a comfortable space where I can also do research on my computer and putter around through reference books while I write. I keep notebooks where I doodle and jot down ideas for future projects. And I plan my books by handwriting them on lined sheets of paper. Later I type final manuscripts on my computer.

EC: I really appreciate how you brought me into your process with that description. Right there where you write is music, and there’s art in your doodling! This book seems to be an important part of who you are. I can’t help but think that you connect to spirituals in so many ways that you could have written volumes! Could you tell us of a particular memory you have that connects you to this music? 

CWH: Sure. I love the amount of research involved in doing a nonfiction book like When I Hear Spirituals. Some years ago I took an a cappella vocal class at the New School in NYC. As students we learned a variety of songs including motets, madrigals and African American spirituals. Eventually we formed an amateur singing group and our friendships formed over the years. One of our directors, learning of my great love of spirituals gifted me with an 1881 edition of The Story of the Jubilee Singers and Their Songs. It is one of my most treasure possessions and I’ve referred to it often in my research for this book. It also confirmed the solid connection between Fisk University and its relationship to Oberlin College and Conservatory where I studied as an undergraduate and sang spirituals with the College Choir. Those memories of studying with conductor Robert Fountain and the Oberlin College Choir are especially memorable.

Fast forward to 2023, I opened an antique hand-cranked Victrola owned by my paternal grandmother in the 1920s. There I discovered sheet music for piano and voice published in the 1890s. I also discovered a 78 vinyl record of the Fisk Jubilee Quartet of 1903 singing “I Couldn’t Hear Nobody Pray.” I listened to the record and It is still inspiring to hear this quartet of voices sing in 2024—over 120 years later! My Grandma Willis must have loved spirituals, too!

EC: When you sing, you pray twice. What about writing? Do you think there’s a spiritual element to that?    

CWH: There’s something about the act of singing that just makes you feel good. It has something to do with taking a deep breath and opening your throat and supporting the flow of air from your diaphragm. Singing connects your inside feelings with an outside reality. Dopamine and endorphins are released when we sing. Somehow, together, these agents alter the chemical composition of our brain which in turn gives us what may be called a spiritual high. Singing can be like an act of spiritual connection to a force outside of or higher than ourselves. I love to sing! What a nice way to feel better! Writing involves a similar process but it’s directed more inward. In storytelling, words and images convey thoughts and ideas from your mind that are communicated out loud or onto the printed page. When these thoughts and ideas are processed (from the writer), then read and received by the reader, a new creative action is re-configured in an almost spiritual way outside of both. Ah ha! A writer’s and a reader’s minds connect and sparks fly in a whole other magical space. I guess you could say there’s a spiritual element to writing, too.

EC: What struck you most about the artwork for When I Hear Spirituals? Do you remember when you first got to see it? 

“When I hear spirituals
I know
There is healing
In the songs my people sing.”

CWH: London Ladd’s artwork is stunning! It’s bold, it’s colorful. It’s layered, it’s textured and it utilizes more than one perspective. It’s like the fabric and layering of a quilt. I was blown away when I saw the finishes. You really need to hear him talk about his process. For lack of a better word, for me his illustrations were really annointed. The images move seamlessly from frame to frame although the content on each spread varies in location, perspective, time, texture and circumstance. For example, spread #1 introduces a young black girl (outside) watching doves circle above her head. Next a young adult — perhaps her brother or father—prays (inside) on a church pew. Is he thinking about his ancestors or perhaps just a recent event in his own life? The scenes selected by the artist’s alternate locations (outside) in nature, then (inside) inner spaces like a sanctuary or private room or a rocking chair come alive. London’s b/w sketches were bold and specific but also captured more quiet symbolic elements like doves and stained glass windows, and quilt patterns. They captured the rhythmic quality of each song. The composition and balance of the of space for the text is just perfect. The images are rendered precisely yet they convey feelings of expansion, that is being liberated from the space. Ultimately it is the profound FEELING conveyed that makes London Ladd’s vision such a beautiful and heart-felt experience. His paintings allow the reader to see and hear the spirituals.

EC: Thank you, Cheryl, for such a thoughtful interview!

When I Hear Spirituals (Holiday House) releases on 7 January 2025. Request your copy now!

CHERYL WILLIS HUDSON is an author, editor and cofounder with her husband Wade, of Just Us Books, Inc., an independent publishing company that focuses on Black interest books for young people. Cheryl has authored more than two dozen books for children including When I Hear Spirituals, illustrated by London Ladd and published by Holiday House. Other titles include AFRO-BETS ABC Book; Brave. Black. First. 50+ African American Women Who Changed the World; and Bright Eyes, Brown Skin (with Bernette G. Ford).  She has also co-edited a number of titles including We Rise, We Resist, We Raise Our Voices; The Talk: Conversations About Race, Love & Truth and Recognize! An Anthology Honoring and Amplifying Black Life. Cheryl frequently speaks to writers, illustrators, editors, teachers and librarians about African American and multicultural publishing and is an active member of the Children’s and Young Adult Committee of PEN America. Outside of her full-time immersion in children’s books, Cheryl enjoys creating handmade story quilts and singing spirituals a capella.

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